The 2011 boots are tech compatible (ie. will work with Onyx bindings), but since this is on clearance I'd say it's the older model that isn't compatible.

The Dakine website has that in its specs, so yes, it should.

I've carried mine vertically on my Dakine Heli Pack too.

The pink one? Good question. I'm going to guess it's a colour that's no longer available, since there isn't a colour that's light pink on the Marmot website either. It might be the Rose Red, but that looks darker to me.
Sorry...that wasn't much help, was it?

Hi,
I can't comment much on the size, since I have only one size in the women's. But I can tell you that the women's does have the wrist strap.

Hi Amy,

We're about the same size, though torso length has a lot more to do with backpack fit than absolute height.

Osprey is known for making great packs that fit well, and a lot of people swear by them. Personally, they don't fit me at all. A lot of other companies make good packs as well: Lowe alpine, Marmot, Deuter, North Face, etc.

The most important thing with a big pack is how comfortable it is to carry, and the best way to find that out is to go try some on! Load a pack up so that it's got some weight and bulk in it, and walk around in it for half an hour. That'll give you an indication of whether you can stand to carry it. Women's packs may be more comfortable for you, or they might not. It's very personal.

Features are also a big factor - what pockets do you want or need? Do you want top-only access? Side/front access?

I will say this: 85 L is BIG. If you have the space, you'll fill it. You may be planning on using the pack for other gear-intensive adventures that require lots of carry space, or you might be travelling with some bulky gear that needs the space, but for a 5-week tour in Europe 85 L should be more than enough space (I travelled for 4.5 months with a 65 L pack including camping gear like a sleeping pad, bag, pots, fuel, stove, etc.).

Not sure that really answered your question...my best suggestion is to go try on all the packs you can find.

I asked myself the same thing when I bought my Precip. What I ended up buying was a Precip jacket and the Venture pants. The jackets have pretty much the exact same features (pit zips, etc.). The fit is also pretty close to the same. I will say that my Precip jacket leaked on occasion when I was abusing it, but my Venture pants didn't. Having said that, the pants didn't get used anywhere near as often or abused as hard, and they did get a tear in one spot where I sat on a rock.

So...
Fit: about the same
Features: about the same
Waterproofness: both good
Durability: both good
Price: about the same

Nope, no opinion from me. I've been happy with the pieces I have from both lines.

Sorry I wasn't able to be much help for making a decision...

No, not specifically. Leather is naturally water resistant, though. If you're looking for the waterproof (Gore-Tex lined) version of the same boot, it's here: http://www.backcountry.com/outdoorgear/Mammut-Mt-Vista-GTX-Boot-Womens/MAM0187M.html?RSC_ID=WR_MAM0187

Here's the instructions: http://www2.thenorthface.com/download/pdf/instructions-AAS6.pdf Give those a shot.
Enjoy your trip!

Hi,

This is windproof, yes. I have the Narvik Gore-Tex Soft Shell pants that I use in the backcountry and I've never had a whiff of wind go through them unless I have the vents open. The fabric itself will keep you dry and wind-free.

As to whether these would be better than the Falketind, it depends on whether you're looking for a soft shell or a hard shell. My experience with the pants is that the fabric is almost half-way between a typical soft shell and a hard shell. For general winter wear with layers underneath, this should work out just fine.

Yep, the SlideLock closure makes a carry handle or clip point. It's visible in the picture of the bladder.

Hi,

There are a few sites that sell the footprint, but they all appear to be out of stock at the moment, including the manufacturer's site.

Another (cheaper) option is to make your own footprint. Get a piece of whatever you want to use for a footprint (a tarp works but is heavy. painters plastic is waaay lighter and works really well), set up your tent on top of it, trace the outline of the tent, and then cut inside that line (so that none of the footprint sticks out from the edge of the tent. Voila, instant tent footprint.

Edward,

I think I already answered this, but can't find the question or answer on this page, just on my profile. Here's the answer I had written before:

The footprint for the Mica 12 will be considerably smaller than the floor of the Tephra 22. You're going to do better looking at 2-person tent footprints.

The easiest option is probably to make your own footprint. Get a piece of whatever you want to use for a footprint (a tarp works but is heavy. painters plastic is waaay lighter and works really well), set up your tent on top of it, trace the outline of the tent, and then cut inside that line (so that none of the footprint sticks out from the edge of the tent. Voila, instant tent footprint.

Good luck!
Andrea

Should be 8 oz each, I believe.

yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes. It has all of the above.

Yes, I've noticed the same thing with my Hubba Hubba, and other tents that I've slept in. I suspect it's the same thing as when they get in the car and can't find their way out...they're just trapped. They come looking for the nice smelly human and then get stuck. Keeping one side of the fly unzipped and rolled back seems to make it easier for a few to escape, but they still collect at the top. Not sure I have a solution for you...I've never really considered it a problem, since they're on one side of the mesh and I'm on the other.

It's always best to have a footprint that's shaped and sized to fit your tent so that you don't run into troubles with water pooling under the tent.

The easiest option is probably to make your own footprint. Get a piece of whatever you want to use for a footprint (a tarp works but is heavy. painters plastic is waaay lighter and works really well), set up your tent on top of it, trace the outline of the tent, and then cut inside that line (so that none of the footprint sticks out from the edge of the tent. Voila, instant tent footprint.

Helen,

While it will protect the bottom of your tent better than not having anything, footprints are cut specifically to the shape of a particular tent, and having one that isn't the right shape or size can lead to trouble (like water pooling under the tent).

The easiest option is probably to make your own footprint. Get a piece of whatever you want to use for a footprint (a tarp works but is heavy. painters plastic is waaay lighter and works really well), set up your tent on top of it, trace the outline of the tent, and then cut inside that line (so that none of the footprint sticks out from the edge of the tent. Voila, instant tent footprint.

Yep. They're not waterproof, but they'll keep the water off pant legs and out of the top of shoes.

You're right, they should be cm. The Metolius website has it right. "Length: 28" (72 cm) and 47.5" (120 cm)"

Hi,
An Australian 14 is usually about a size 10 in American sizes. To be on the safe side, use the sizing chart (http://www.backcountry.com/store/sizingchart.html?sizing_id=24&sku=SAL1340&pg_id=224&subcat_id=36&cat_id=12) for measurements. If you're at the high end of the range, go with the bigger size (and if you're at the low end, the smaller size, obviously). Hope that helps.

Renae,
They are American sizes. Go with the measurements in the sizing chart to pick your size, since they're sold in S/M/L/XL and not numerical sizes anyway.
Andrea

Garrett,

The Muira VS isn't really a beginners shoe, as it's fairly asymmetrical and downturned. If you haven't worn an agressive shoe of that shape before it's going to take some getting used to. Having said that, if you've been climbing for 3 years (I'm assuming you meant fairly regularly) both indoors and out, are you really a beginner anymore? These shoes will give you precision and stickiness, but they're not bedroom-slipper-comfortable. If you can try some shoes of varying aggressiveness that might give you an idea what kind of shoe you might be looking for.

Yes, it has a Gore-Tex membrane to make it waterproof.

It's in stock now.

Tamera,

The product specifies that it contains broad spectrum UVA/UVB protection. And yes, you could certainly use it on your face, but be careful spraying around your eyes!

Malcolm,

This product will filter bacteria out of water, yes. If you're looking for something to filter large amounts of water in a base-camp-type setting, this would be an excellent choice.

I'd get a large. Although 67.5L falls into the "medium" size range, if you have the pack extended of stuff strapped to the outside a large will be a better fit.

julie,

Try some after-market rain covers here: http://www.backcountry.com/store/group/100000167/Pack-Accessories.html

Well, I wouldn't call it my warmest jacket, since it's not insulated. And I'm not sure I'd call it my lightest either, since I have a lighter jacket that I carry for "just in case" in the summer. But this is definitely my most waterproof and breathable and *bombproof* jacket. This is the one I take ski touring so I know I'll stay dry. This is the one I take hiking when there's dark grey clouds overhead, and this is the one I take backpacking if the forecast isn't just straight sunshines. This is the jacket I trust to keep me dry.

Matt, are we talking about hiking-backpacking or travelling-backpacking? And if you're hiking-backpacking and carrying your own tent, stove, fuel, food, etc, then how often are you going to be able to re-stock? For hiking-backpacking, 60L is a 3-5 day size for most people.

If we're talking about travelling-backpacking, then it's a whole other story. I travelled for 4.5 months with a 65L pack (and did a whole lot of hiking-backpacking on that trip too), but it depends on how many changes of clothes and shoes you're going to carry, etc. I know people who can live out of a 40L pack for months on end, and others who haul around an 80L pack. It's a very personal choice.

I'm sure that wasn't the answer you were looking for...

Yes, it does. It has a dual compartment with bottom access, so that's a common place to put a sleeping bag.

Absolutely you can. I wouldn't store it compressed all the time (I store mine in the included sack), but carrying it compressed is fine. A compression sack that's about 15 L should be fine.

Monique,
No, it's not waterproof. You'd probably be fine in a drizzle, but I'd expect wet coontents in a downpour.

stephen,

I have the ND version of this pack, and my 1.5 L hydration bladder fits in no problem. I generally carry a bottle as well if I need to carry more water than that at a time, but I usually have pretty regular water sources on my hikes. The sleeve would comfortably fit a 2 L bladder. 3L might be a tight fit.

This picture from Sea to Summit indicates that the zip is on the left.

Probably a size 8. I have a size 6.5 siren and a size 6 anasazi, but the anasazis are definitely too small, and I'd be way more comfy in a 6.5. The sizing's pretty close.

Like any inflating mat or sleeping bag, it should be stored uncompressed and with the valves open. Storing it compressed can compress the fibres/down/foam. You want to store these items such that they retain their loft.

Yep. It's up in the advanced-expert skiier category, designed for off-piste skiing, though it handles groomers well too.

Yep, that's correct. Zero snow entry on pow days!

Matt,

Assuming that it fits well, I have never found anyone who wasn't thrilled with their Anasazis and trying to make them last as long as possible. I'm thrilled with mine (the women's), and they're too small for me. Although these aren't the stiffest shoe around, they are fantastic for standing on little tiny edges while also being good for smearing. They're not built on a super-downturned last, so the foot remains in a fairly neutral position. The heel pocket is snug, so heel hooking is a breeze.

I would highly recommend trying them on somewhere before buying them! climbing shoe fit is such an important part of how shoes perform, and a poor fit will not only diminish the performance of the shoe, but probably be uncomfortable for you.

Hope that helps!
Andrea

Scott,
In a regular width, US 10.5 is about a 44 in EU sizing. You could try a 44.5, though if width is the main thing you're worried about that might just make them too long and still narrow for you.

Heather,

They won't really stretch no. They'll be more comfortable after a while, but they won't really get any bigger. My Anasazis are still as ridiculously tight as when I got them... :)

Top only, I believe.

Well, it'll be extremely hard to use. Picture yourself doing a pull up with your face a couple inches from the wall...your feet, knees, etc. are going to be touching. Having said that, I have seen it done...awkwardly. Doorways are much better.

Hi,

Keen doesn't appear to make a Youth sandal in a size 7 (http://www.keenfootwear.com/product/ss10/shoes/kids/youth/newport). The largest youth size is 6, and to go up to a size 7 you're into a men's shoe.

Hi Brian,

Base Wash is designed for synthetic base- and mid-layers, so it is designed to help with the wicking properties of those garments. Tech Wash is the best cleaner for clothing and outer layers like your pants, shirts, and Monkey Phur. It doesn't destroy waterproofing like regular detergent does, and it can help get old soapy residues off from previous detergent washings. If you want to increase the water resistance of your Monkey Phur, Nikwax makes Polar Proof, which can improce surface water repellency and reduce water absorption...not sure if you were interested in that, or just cleaning.

So, in short, use Tech Wash. =)

Andrea

Absolutely! It's a pretty good size for a day trip to the beach, and it actually closes, so you won't be losing your sunscreen and book out the top when you put it down. Good thinking. =)

Mark,

This beacon transmits and receives on the international standard frequency of 457 kHz as a transceiver, so it will work worldwide and with any other beacon. It has a second signal on a different frequency that transmits the vital signs data (W-link).

This is straight from the Mammut website:
"Aside from the standard signal frequency used by all avalanche transceivers, the PULSE Barryvox® is equipped with an additional communications channel (W-Link). Varying regulations in different countries prohibit the use of one unique frequency worldwide for this purpose. For this reason, we offer two different preconfigured device versions; one for the European region (EU version), the other for North America and Oceania (US version).
The only difference between the two versions is the preconfigured W-Link frequency. This does not affect the standard signal of the avalanche transceiver, and the devices are 100% compatible with other avalanche transceivers."

So that means that:
1. The Australia/New Zealand version and US version are the same
2. ONLY the vital signs data is transmitted on varying frequencies

Hi there.

There are certainly a lot of differences between the MiniWorks and the HyperFlow filters. Ignoring differences like weight (the Hyperflow weighs half what the MiniWorks does), pumping action (the Hyperflow is like a bike pump, the MinWorks has a handle pump), filtration rate (the HyperFlow says 3 L/min, the MiniWorks 1 L/min), and cleaning methods (the HyperFlow is a backflush, the MiniWorks you brush the ceramic), let's look at the filters themselves.

The MiniWorks uses a ceramic carbon-cored filter cartridge, with pores up to 0.2 microns in size. The ceramic takes care of particulates, bacteria and protozoa, and the carbon core removes some taste-causing chemicals, such as iodine or tannins.

The HyperFlow uses hollow fibre technology, which has a larger surface area for a given volume - this is how the HyperFlow can have such a high flowrate and be so small. The pore size is still up to 0.2 microns, so it's still effective for particulates, bacteria, and protozoa. The HyperFlow doens't have a carbon element though, so there isn't any removal of funny tasts from the water.

As for whether having a carbon element is important - that's up to you, and where you'll be getting water from. Some peopel hate the taste of chemicals in their water. Many backpackers add chemicals to their water to purify it (chlorine/iodine), rather than remove them.

Happy backcountry travel!

aaaah...I see what you were asking. Sorry about that. This will definitely get the job done for skiing. Snow, water and wind out. It's not a light summer shell - Gore Tex Pro Shell is beefy. Frankly, unless I know I'm going to be out for days in the rain in the summer, I wear a lighter rain jacket, but my Pro Shell always goes with me when I'm skiing.

Yep, as long as 40L is enough space for you. It depends on your gear and what you carry, but 40L is generally an overnight or weekend trip size of bag. I know people who would have trouble fitting their weekend backpacking gear into 40L, and I know people who have more compact gear and make do with less stuff and could backpack for a week with a 40L pack. Personally, I use my 45L pack (I don't have a 40L) for short trips and for week-long trips I bump up to my 65L pack since I'll be carrying more food and need to carry clothing for a wider range of weather possibilities.
Hope that helps...

Wendy,

It would work, yes. I started geocaching with this type of GPS and it worked fine until I left it at a cache. If you're looking for the ability to input coordinates and "go to" them to find the cache, as well as to mark locations (like a car or trailhead), this will work.

If you're looking for an ability to have maps on it, this one won't do the trick. You also need the cables if you wish to connect it to a computer (for putting waypoints onto it, for example). Of course, you can always just input the coordinates by hand...

So after a long-winded explanation: yep, it'll work. Not the fanciest and doesn't have all the bells and whistles, but it'll get you to those caches!

Ruth,

Basically, push back and down on it. I found mine really tight at first, though they loosened up with use. I think the first time I used them I had to get someone else to help me get them down. Good luck!

Andrea

Hi there. This jacket isn't insulated, so you can wear it in all seasons, and change what layers you're wearing underneath to keep you warm. This jacket will keep water and wind out (and let perspiration out), but you'll have to put some other clothing on to keep you toasty on those freezing winter days.

Yep, there's a pouch in the pack to hold a hydration pack, and a port that the hose can come through. =)

Brian,

What type of terrain will you be on? Are you looking for a snowshoe for rolling trails? steep mountains? deep powder? icy trails? Not sure and want to make sure that what you get will still be great if you get into the steep & deep? Knowing what kind of snowshoeing you're planning on doing will guide you in picking a shoe.

Some things to think about:
-for a lot of steep hill climbing, look for a snowshoe with a heel riser (a bar that pops up behind your heel)
-traction is important, especially for icy or steep areas. I'm a big fan of the traction on the MSR Lightning/Lightning Ascent because of the serrated frame, but I'm biased 'cause that's what I currently own.
-there are a couple of common binding pivot systems. A "spring-loaded" system (like the Atlas) is responsive and keeps the shoe from dragging, but flicks snow up onto your back/butt. Some people hate it, others don't mind. A more rigid pivot doesn't flick snow but means a bit more shoe drag. A personal choice.
-There are lots of different binding systems, and while they have their strong and weak points, quite frankly I think they're all fine and easy enough to get on and off that this probably won't be what you make a decision based on.

No matter what you pick, you're going to want to go towards the longer models, as they will provide more flotation for your weight.

Hope that helps a bit at least!
Andrea

Stuart,

There are many aftermarket rain covers available. There are some here: http://www.backcountry.com/store/group/100000167/Pack-Accessories.html. REI/MEC or other retailers also carry them and often make their own product. Just make sure you pick one intended for a 40L pack.

As for the gear loops, they're for attaching stuff to the pack. Ice axe, sleeping pad, helmets, water, or whatever.

Bob,

These gloves have a gore-tex insert which keeps water out and insulation, but they aren't removable. The gore-tex insert and insulation are an integral part of the glove.

Dee,

These poles come with low-profile trekking baskets, not powder baskets. The BD site does specify that they come with the long flex tips, though. And baskets and tips are swappable. =)

They come as a pair.

This is both the bladder and tube. The tube does disconnect from the bladder if you need it to (for easy removal from your pack, for example), but they are sold together.

kate,

You should be ok with a baselayer in these pants, though that will depend some on how warm of a person you are, how cold out it is, what kind of activity you're doing, and how heavy your baselayer is. In general though, a baselayer should be fine.

Andrea

RP,

Technically there isn't a left and right shoe, but MSR recommends wearing the shoes with the buckles on the inside of the foot.

I'm not quite sure how to answer your question about the straps and the prongs. I just pull to the tightness I want and then find the nearest hole to the prong and it pops in. I will say that it's more just the tip of the prong that's in the hole, not the whole length, but I've never had a problem with the straps loosening while I was wearing the shoe.

Hope that helps!
Andrea

Ken,

The Tracker 2 has an indicator light that tells you that it's picking up multiple signals, but it doesn't have the ability to "mark" a beacon and suppress that signal, no. If that's a feature that you're specifically looking for, have a look at the Barryvox Pulse, the Ortovox S1, or the Pieps DSP.

Yah, I assume so. The Norrona website currently has "Festival Fuchsia", "Caviar" and "Caviar/Blue" as colours, so Ebony appears to be older product.

I've decided to keep mine, and took them out on a ski tour last weekend...super happy. They were comfy, the mesh lined vents are great, and I love the fabric. It's like a hard softshell, and it's quiet in the backcountry. I just couldn't justify returning them and spending more than twice as much on other pants just for a side zip, when I probably don't really need the full zip.

On the bright side, if you don't like them when the arrive or they don't quite fit, backcountry has a fantastic returns policy. =)

Enjoy!

Hi Jenna,

First off, this is a great product. They're definitely high quality. I love mine to bits, and with the exception of some scratched paint from rocks mine still look brand new after over a year of use (not every day, but fairly frequent use).

At 90 lbs (+pack/gear), you'd be below the recommended upper weight limit of most kids snowshoes (double check before you buy), which is frequently ~125 lbs. Kids snowshoes would definitely be cheaper, and the quality won't necessarily be lower. Most kids snowshoes use the same materials as the adult counterparts (I'm generalizing, but MSR and Atlas are 2 companies that do). Having said that, I would make a different recommendation based on the terrain and snow conditions you're planning on using the shoes in. For flat or rolling terrain and fairly packed or not too deep snow, you'd probably be just fine on a kids snowshoe. For steeper and more technical terrain, I'd recommend an adult shoe for the extra features that it would give you, such as the heel lift. Since you're looking at the Lightning Ascent, which is definitely a shoe that's designed for technical terrain (but also works great on rolling), I'm going to assume that you're looking for the features and traction. An adult shoe will also be longer, in general (eg. Lightning Ascent is 22" or more long, and the MSR Shift is less than 20"), which will help with flotation. If you're planning on being in deep fluffy powder, I'd go with an adult shoe.

So, in summary:
For flat/rolling, fairly packed terrain: a youth snowshoe would be fine
For steep, technical, or deep terrain: go with an adult shoe.

Good luck with your choice, and have fun outside!
Andrea

To add to Ian's economic assessment of why buying shoes is a good idea, it's also nice to have your own pair of shoes that fits you well, and having your own shoes takes out the "ew" factor that comes with renting climbing shoes.

I'll also agree that trying them on is an excellent idea - the fit of climbing shoes is a pretty precise thing, and is not necessairly related to shoe size at all. Poor fitting climbing shoes can lead to really really sore toes (more than usual...).

Oh yah. Major differences in the pockets and venting zippers - they're in completely different places. You can see the differences in location in the pictures above, and the reviews by myself (on the Ebony) and Merebea (on the Caviar/Blue) describe the features of each color/style. The other reviews on this page also highlight some of the differences. Basically, the Ebony has 1 hip pocket, 1 back pocket, 1 thigh slash pocket, inseam vents that are mesh-lined, and a zipper at the bottom of the pant that goes up to somewhere between the ankle and knee. The Caviar/Blue has 2 hip pockets, 1 thigh slash pocket, 1 back pocket, vents on the outside of the leg which I don't think are mesh-lined (can someone confirm?), and the zippers at the bottom.

Other than the pockets & venting, I think that the fabric and construction is the same, but I only have the Ebony so I can't do a direct comparison.

Hope that helps!
Andrea

Hi,

I personally prefer the MSR because of the superb traction of the the serrated frame over the tube style, especially on hills. Going down, I'm not as likely to be sliding on my butt, and going up I can plant my foot and know that even if I shift my weight off of the main crampons I'll still have an edge biting into the snow.

I've had both types of shoes, and I like the concept of the spring-loaded suspension on the Atlas shoes - the responsivevness and lack of drag. However, the kick-up at the back hits me in the back of the neck (I'm short), so I either had to wear a hood or put up with snow down my neck, and I ended up exchanging my Atlases (E11) for the Lightning Ascent. I've been really happy with the switch...no complaints.

Have fun!
Andrea

It doesn't have a specific shovel pocket, no, so you'll have to put your shovel inside your pack where it's won't get ripped off the pack during an avalanche. As for ski carry, the pack is best suited to an A-frame carry - that's how the webcatcher straps are placed.

Dee,
You put a filter in the cone (#6 paper or cloth, and I think this comes with a re-usable one), put in some coffee (it suggests 2 tablespoons of medium/fine grind per 6 oz of water), pour hot water on top, and let it drip, adding more water to get the amount of coffee you want. It's basically an insulated carafe with a filter cone on top - you have to heat the water seperately.

If you don't like long snowshoes most of the time, you're probably going to be better off going with a modular snowshoe like the Evo Ascent. The tails for the Evo Ascent are 6" tails, so they will give you a fair bit of flotation if you need it. The Lightning/Lightning Ascent is a fixed-length snowshoe; there's no option to add tails to that design. MSR's selection guide (http://cascadedesigns.com/selection_snowshoe_static.aspx) puts a 200 lb person on the Evo Ascent + tails for soft or soft & deep (deeper than 30") snow, or the Lightning/Lightning Ascent 25", maybe the 30" for soft & deep snow.

If you're not going to be in powder all the time where you need the extra length and you don't like having a longer shoe, I'd go with the Evo Ascent.

Andrew,

You don't necessarily have to apply the leather balm before first use or on a particular schedule, but if the leather is looking dry you definitely need to...try to do it before the leather gets to that stage. I'd do it at the end of the season too to keep the leather in good condition while it's being stored.

Here's Hestra's advice on leather care:
Grease the leather regularly and it will resist moisture, wear and tear better. Moisten the leather a little first. Use a polishing cloth and rub in the grease until the leather is saturated. Do this in the evening and the grease is absorbed during the night.

Yep. I have a Giro helmet that's about 5 years old (G10? I can't remember), and my hood fits over it with room to spare.
-Andrea

Most snowshoe bindings will accomodate a snowboard boot, but not all. In general, you'll have better luck with a binding that is open at the toe and wraps ro straps around the foot (eg. the Atlas bindings or MSR bindings). I'd be careful with bindings with an enclosed toe that you step into - I've seen some snowboard boots that are too high in the toe to fit.

Since you're asking on this page, I'm going to assume you're considering the Atlas 12. The specs on this shoe specifically indicate that they're snowboard boot compatible.

I'm 5'2" and about 30" in the waist, and I have a size small that are more than big enough in the waist (I have them cinched down and still can fit a whole lot of layers tucked in), and the 29" inseam is plenty long for me...they'd be way too long if my ski boots didn't hold them up.