The 70D Paclite fabric we use to make this jacket is from Gore. The DWR is applied by Gore as a result and is part of the "gauranteed to keep you dry" Gore gaurantee. I think you will find that as long as you keep your jacket CLEAN the DWR will function well for a long time. Again, keeping your jacket clean will really help maintain the life of any DWR. Hope this info helps!

nah, the 70D shell is slick. DWR holds up nicely and beads consistently. Only thing I'm worried about is the durability of the Paclite in the long run, I've seen tougher membranes wear out around certain high risk areas...

Scott. This jacket falls under GoreTex's Performance Shell category... mostly because they did not know where to put it. We combined a 70 denier face fabric with Paclite, one of the most breathable Gore laminates, so that you could achieve the durability of Pro-Shell for roughly $100+ bucks less and maintain phenomenal breathability. So, since we used the Paclite laminate you could ask why it doesn't fall in the Paclite category? Again, this is due to the durability of the 70 D face fabric and because of this durability Gore decided to split the difference and put it in Performance Shell. I hope this helps to clarify the placement of a unique jacket in Gore's product marketing.

Hi. The description actually says performance shell and not pro-shell. Gore-tex has 4 lines right now...Paclite, performance shell pro-shell and soft shell.

http://www.gore-tex.com/remote/Satellite/content/fabric-technologies-outerwear

If you want Gore... the Mountain Hardwear Typhoon is a great option at a great price. If you want to spend less.. the Rain Shadow, Precip, or Epic jacket from Hardwear are great options as well. Cheers!

My advice for rain gear is to go with something that packs small and is lightweight. They also aren't as warm, which is nice in the summer, but you can always put other layers underneath if its cold. I like the Patagonia Rain Shadow and Marmot Pre Clip. They are both very simple jackets. Basically they are just a single layer of waterproof fabric (N2NO HB and PreClip). They provide excellent waterproofing and are almost half the weight of the jackets you are looking for (cheaper too). This means they are smaller to stuff into a pocket in his pack.

Personal anecdote: I did a 12 day trip in Philmont over 10 years ago and didn't use my rain gear at all. I'm not saying that's typical though.

Techtron is another good DWR refresher that was actually produced by Gore and sold to McNett. Also, just so you all know... the jacket is still waterproof, as the laminate is still attached, it is just that the DWR has worn off or been affected by smoke or dirt. Before re-applying an aftermarket DWR refresher like Nikwax or Techtron by McNett... I would suggest washing and DRYING your garment with regular laundry detergent (TIDE). NO FABRIC SOFTENER! Often times washing will refresh the DWR and get the foreign agents off so it can do its job again. Hope this helps!

I second the vote for NIKWAX. I wouldn't use anything else. Don't ruin the waterproofing of your jacket just to save a few bucks on laundry soap.

NIKWAX. I have used it for years and years and it has always done a great job for me.

I don't know about 85 degrees but it should be fine with a light t-shirt (don't wear cotton!) to 70 degrees. I have gone running in the pouring rain in this jacket and it didn't get sweaty but that was in the 50 degree range at the time. If you want something for 85 degrees maybe try the Mountain Hardwear Cohesion Jacket? I have one of them that I take for summer backpacking. Extremely light and good waterproof shell. Hope that helps.

Just an FYI... the Xenon is made with the Paclite Laminate from GoreTex. Cheers!

Awesome! thanks for the info. psyched to get it.

E

if you want something that packs smaller and weighs less look for a coat with gore-tex paclite it will work better for hotter weather but still offer protection from the elements and have breathability. look at the Outdoor Research Foray, i have one of these and its awesome!

yeah you definitely could. very breathable and I've never been irritated by condensation or anything. I would recommend this or the LL BEAN Mountain Stretch Shell. I have both and use both however the Xenon I find to be more packable.

Definitely. I was very surprised at how articulated, yet roomy this shell is. Mine will fit two wool baselayers, a fleece jacket, and a hooded softshell underneath - And it fits nicely on its own as well, not too sloppy fitting. It is very accommodating.

I just tried one of these on last night. I'm 6'2" and 195lbs and the large fit but was pretty tight with a mid-weight wool sweater underneath.

Check out the dialogue below. It should prove useful and might supply the answer you're looking for. As you will see, numerous others have been in the same or a similar predicament.

I beat the hell out of mine and theres not a scratch! Also the paclite is supposed to be notably better than the conduit (at least thats what I've heard.) If you really want a jacket in this class but dont feel like spending all that money consider jackets made with eVent. It's some relatively new material which is supposed to be better (more breathable, as waterproof, cheaper, lighter) than goretex.

I am not Jon, but I hope this will suffice until he sees your post. I'm sure he'll give some better insight. It's hard to say which will be more durable - While the Xenon uses a 70D shell, paclite, and is 2-layer...(actually it is 2.5 layer... believe it or not!) the Terra uses a 20D shell, 20D backer, and Conduit (3-layer). Both should be durable, but I don't know that the Xenon would be better enough to warrant purchasing ANOTHER $300 jacket. To each his own, but remember that you've got a lifetime warranty on that sucker should anything go wrong anytime soon.-----------------------------------Good advice. The only thing I would add, that may or may not put your mind at ease, is that from a fabric standpoint a 70 D fabric is more durable than a 20 D fabric simply due to the diameter of the thread (think 1000 D Courdura in luggage... super thick and durable). This does not mean that your Terra Shell is made out of rice paper. It should be durable enough for just about anything you throw at it... including snowballs! What are you planning to do with the jacket? I mean if you snag a jacket made with 70D fabric on a sharp branch and then snagged a jacket made with a 20 D fabric on a sharp branch... more than likely both would tear. I will tell you this for further comparison that has nothing to do with durability... the Terra Shell represents some of the most breathable fabric we have ever worked with. So, in conclusion I would use it, enjoy it, and if you tear the fabric somehow then let us know and we'll do our best to take care of it... but, until then... no worries. Hope this helps!Here is my 2 cents on the durability.

Everyone is likely to give their two cents, so knowing that... presently the MH Xenon and Pinnacle are approximately the same price ($100 cheaper than the Arcteryx Beta AR). And I personally believe that the Beta AR is not $100 better than either. There are the throngs of Arc lovers that will pay above and beyond for the logo and I truly believe that it is rarely 3 times better than other product (as the price would imply). One exception being the Alpha SV jacket (legendary). Having said that, the pinnacle is made using MH Conduit technology whereas the xenon is Gore. I've never heard anything negative about the Conduit technology - it is legitimate. Gore-tex is..well, Gore-tex. Trusted. It seems as though the xenon is taped and the pinnacle is welded. Personally, I prefer taping to welding without it. Sacrificing a few ounces for taping is worth it, in my humble opinion. Both jackets are comparable in weight. The xenon is made with Paclite (the lightest of Gore products) and a 70D outer layer. Very stout. As you can read in the other question/answer dialogue - most shells are made three layer with 40/30D. To summarize, I'd choose the Xenon shell because it is everything you require at the best price: 'very durable...waterproof...light'. As a matter of fact, I think I just talked myself into buying one.-------------------------Great answer. Cheers!-------------------------So I did buy the jacket, as stated, and thus far LOVE it. I will review it after it has seen sufficient testing/use

It is definitely BLUE. Not purple. Cheers!

There is, unfortunately, no zip in compatibility with this jacket. This thing does breathe, but, if you are really pushing yourself, you'll want a midlayer that is not only warm, but wicking. My suggestion would be the Mountain Hardwear Power Stretch Zip Tee because of the warmth to weight ratio and superior insulative properties. If it's a little colder you could always try tangling with a MontBell jacket or the classic by Mountain Hardwear, the Windstopper Tech Jacket, or Alchemy.

It has a longer cut I think

A few more details, the Xenon is made with the Paclite laminate from Gore with a heavier face fabric for durability. It is sewn and taped in a traditional manner. It is a great jacket and what makes it unique is the combo of the paclite laminate and the heavier face fabric which provides exceptional breathability and duarabilty at the same time. The Pinnacle is a whole different animal. The Pinnacle Jacket is WELDED together using Mountain Hardwear's patented Z-Weld technology (which is a way of gluing a jacket together without the use of tape.) Z-welds are completely waterproof and stretchy. The shoulder panels on the Pinnacle are made with a Conduit stretch twill fabric which is really unique. So, the Pinnacle represents huge innovation in the way jackets are made: it is stretchy, welded together, is waterproof and breathable! And to answer your question more specifically.. I think you would find they are similar in durability. Hope this info helps with your decision.

This jacket is great for harsh conditions, the water and wind protection it offers is unbelievable. Gortex is definatlly worth what you pay for it. That being said you will need to add a fleece layer underneath this to keep you warm. This is a shell and as such it wont keep you warm for long by itself. Also I dont know if this would make a great skiing shell or not. the cut is not parka length and it has no elastic snow skirt to keep the powder out. It does have a draw string around the bottom that cinches it nice and tight though so you will have to figure out if having a snow skirt is worth that much to you.Overall this is a great shell and I always recommend that people buy a good quality shell and a warm fleece to go under it rather than blowing a bunch of money on one of those three in one skiing jackets. (like the ones TNF is so famous for)

Absolutely. This jacket would work well for fishing and/or any rainy situation. And due to the fact that it is made with GoreTex fabrics it is "guaranteed to keep you dry!"

The torso fits me great, I am 6 6.5 with 38 inch sleeves and this jacket (xl) fits better than most that I have tried. Though it is not parka length ti rides about 3 to 4 inched below your belt line.

Not necessarily.. it really depends on the laminate that is used under the face fabric. However, in this case, the Alpha SL (12oz for the jacket) uses a much lighter face fabric which will be more breathable but much less durable than the Xenon Jacket ( 19oz for the jacket) Hope this helps!I went for several long hikes in very clammy wet conditions and never felt uncomfortable in this jacket. The pit zips are huge and when I got done there was a layer of salt on the back panel from where the condensated sweat had gone out but the salt couldn't pass through.

The guarantee means that no water gets in and all the moisture gets out. The numbers are a rating of the rate of transpiration through the membrane.------------------------------Here is a little expansion of this answer... when it says "guaranteed" you will notice that it is probably made using a GORE or GORETEX laminate. These laminates are guaranteed to be waterproof and breathable BY GORE! Not the manufacturer. The other waterproof and breathability ratings are industry standard for any laminates or coatings that are not produced by Gore (alot of them!). Yes, Gore measures these things differently. This is why there is a difference in the description.

I answered the question for my self and thought I would leave the answer her for any one else that is wondering.30.5 in or 77.5 cmSource: Mountain Hardwear's Website

Would you like the long or the short answer? The fundamental difference between the two from Gore's standpoint is basically durability. To be a Proshell the face fabric (outside fabric) of the shell has to pass certain durability tests. Proshells are typically 3-layer... but 2-layer proshells exist as well. Now, I am going to confuse you. This Xenon jacket is categorized as a "Performance shell" according to Gore... but it is one of the most durable shells out there from anyone due to the fact that the entire shell is made using 70 D face fabric (burly). Most shells are made with 40 D fabric or a combo of the two. The reason it was categorized as a "performance shell" is because we coupled Gore Paclite with this 70D super durable shell. Paclite is usually used in much lighter weight rain shells... but it has great breatheability characteristics and this is what we liked about it. Really, they did not have a category for the Xenon so... it was put in Performance Shell. Know that it is probably more durable than many Proshells out there and it is also less expensive. So, if you want the durability of a Proshell with the $$$ of a Performance Shell... look no further. Clear as mud? Hope this sheds a little light.

Actually, both are Gore "Performance Shells". The Xenon is made using the Paclite laminate from Gore and the Escape is built in a two layer construction using the standard Goretex membrane with a softer and lighter weight face fabric. Both will keep you warm and dry. The face fabric on the Xenon is a little burlier would make this jacket a bit more durable in the long run. Hope this helps.The Escape also lacks the welded seams and micro taping.

This thing held up to 50mph winds while I was out climbing the other day. Amazing jacket for such a light piece and I love that it breaths better than friends GorePro 3 Layer jackets that cost 3x the price. Mountain Hardwear got this right with tough 70 denier nylon on the outside and truely breathable waterproof Gore Pac-Lite inside. Great job guys!

Yes it will shield you 100% from Arctic Winds. It is also guaranteed against polar bear attacks, walrus batterings, lava, and nuclear radiation.

This jacket is totally wind and waterproof. An arctic wind? It would be good to have a bit of insulation in conjunction with this shell in an arctic situation. Not so much for the wind or water... but for the cold. Hope this helps!