Mountain Hardwear Helion 2 Tent 2-Person 3-Season - 2008 BCS

I can't compare the two, but I thought my experience with the copper spur 2 would be helpful.

This is my 3rd year with the copper spur 2. Once inside it's a solid tent. Comfortable for 2, good vestibule space, easy set-up, and lightweight. I want to love this tent, and I do like it a lot; but I have a number of complaints (one quite major), so it's going back to the store today.

1) It's very crinkly noisy in the wind.
2) Too much condensation for me (w/one person, lows in the 30s).
3) The doorways open from side to side making a 1/2 circle (diameter at the base). This means you have to open most of the door to make enough space to enter/exit (I'm 5'5", 130lb), so "squeezing in" is pretty impossible. This is a pain. I could see the point if there was only one door at the head of the tent and one person might have a harder time with a side hinge, but both sides have their own door. What makes entering/exiting even more tricky is that the "hinge" lies horizontally above the "tub" and requires stepping over an approx. 6-8" lip. This wouldn't be such a big deal if it weren't for the fact that as you carefully step over the lip, you must *also* keep your head and back low to avoid standing up into the tent-high pole that crosses the width of the tent and extends approximately 10" from each side wall - annoying and tricky when 1/2 awake and needing to pee!!
4) The fly just ripped in two places - each near where the horizontal pole fits into it - the fit is extremely tight (too tight in my opinion) and I imagine there has simply been too much pressure on this part of the fly. So... on one side there is a little torn hole and on the other an entire 2x5" rectangular flap tore away from the fly. I should add, although the fly has been exposed to heat and cold and has been packed tightly at times, I am careful to air dry it in the mornings and after each trip; and I store it loosely in a cool, dry hall closet.

After the rips, not only do I distrust the material, my confidence in Big Agnes has been greatly shaken.

Thank you for the help Jon! That was a great summary of the technical differences. It helped put things in perspective. And I think you are right; they are both great tents that will serve me well. I think also that when we get to making these high end gear choices that we tent to split a lot of unnecessary hairs that may not even be noticeable in actual use.

I will check out the Sky Ledge 2.1 and see how it stacks up. :)

Jerry. I've got firsthand experience with the Helion but not the Copper Spur. Here are a few differences between the two tents: For starters the Helion is 2oz. lighter. It packs smaller (6x18 vs. 7x20). The Copper Spur has one inch more head room. The Helion has one door and the Copper Spur has two. Copper Spur 29sqft. vs the Helion with 28sqft. The Copper Spur uses DAC featherlight poles. The Helion? Atlas UL Poles... and it is my opinion that the Atlas poles are stronger and easier to repair in the field due to the floating connectors. The Copper Spur uses ripstop nylon in the floor and the fly... both with a 1200mm PU coating. The Helion uses a Hollow Core Nylon fly and a 30D nylon taffeta floor with a 3000mm coating. The Copper Spur is a 'Hub' tent and the Helion is not. The Helion has hoops (to save weight) that the poles are threaded through... the Copper Spur has clips. Both are great tents and will treat you well. Another tent to consider from Mountain Hardwear would be the Sky Ledge 2.1

Hope this info helps

I have played around with both tents and i decided to go with the Helion. Here is why.

the floor seems to be a bit tougher (as mentioned) and so do the poles. I am also not a big fan of the single pole w/ hub configuration on the seedhouse. I find it is harder to pack the single pole compared to the 3 separate ones on the helion. The single pole design on the seedhouse also makes it less stable and less able to withstand harsh winds and rains.

I am a bit disappointed with the ring design instead of clips on the helion. this isnt that big of a deal though because you can actually use a bunch of mini wire gate biners as clips. I got some at EMS and it works great. I am also a "happier camper" inside the Helion. it is a tad bit smaller floor space but i was not all that thrilled with the steep slope of the seedhouse side walls.

Both tents are VERRY small 2 person tents. if you are a big guy you will not be sharing this tent unless you are spooning and laying against the walls. I highly doubt i could fit 2 big agnes mummy aircore pads in the helion together.. it may be possible in the seedhouse but still very tight.

MH was also smart to put adjustable pole grommets on the floor of the tent. this makes it easier to put up and take down while also providing greater stability when tightened. over all the helion is more advanced and better built.

both tents are extremely packable (I can get mine with footprint in a small cordura sea to summit compression sack compressed all the way down no problem at all) the hubba hubba is much bulkier and requires a medium sack. it is much roomier though.

if you have the extra change I would go with the helion

Thanks Matthew. I understand that vestibules require staking. I guess I should have cited rgmaher2259401's review on the Seedhouse page as part of my original question:

"Using the [Seedhouse] rainfly definitely requires staking, so if granite is your thing, you need more tension lengthwise than the poles allow. If you want to stay dry, it has to stay taught, and if anything more than a light rain is expected, you better plan on setting all the guy lines to keep the separation between shell and fly."

A.R.M also refers to the same problem. I was hoping the Helion would be different. Any idea?

I am interested in the Hubba Hubba as well, but I like the two abovementioned tents better due to their extremely small packablity.

The rain fly does require staking on both tents. For the most part any tent that has a vestibule will require staking.

Both tents are good choices. The mountain hardwares pole geometry is a little burlier as well as the floor. I might also look at the MSR Hubba Hubba and the HP version.

Not once you get used to it. It is not as convenient as a clip-up tent but if you get the poles situated before you pop up the tent... it is not bad at all. It is definitely worth the weight savings! Hope this helps. Cheers.

Yes this tent does have the bathtub floor. It is also very waterproof, I took this tent to Mt. Whitney and the first night we were there was a thunderstorm with alot of rain at trail camp and not a drop of water got inside! I highly recommend this tent its superlight and super strong!

Hey RC, I checked out mountainhardwear.com for more info, and didn't read anything specific about a bathtubbed floor. I did, however, find that all MHW tents are guaranteed watertight. Check this out straight off the MHW website, "Guaranteed watertight construction with welded body construction, fully taped 30-denier fly, welded corners and guy clip anchors. Rain room tested with 1200" of rain in 24 hours." Unless you're camping at the bottom of the Atlantic, I think you're good! Hope that helps.

http://www.backcountry.com/store/MHW0847/Mountain-Hardwear-Stiletto-1-Tent-1-Person-3-Season.html

Check out the Stilleto from Mountain Hardwear for a 1 person version