These holds are great. The edges are like perfect little mini jugs, and the helkes have amazing ridgy features that work at almost any angle. If you're trying to decide between the two, I much prefer the helkes. The only drawback is the screws. They rust super easily, so be careful using these holds outside. The other thing is the threading on the screws is way too tight, so if you over drive them they just strip out the hole and become useless. I advise just picking up a box of screws from somewhere else and using those.