These pants are pretty nice. They are a lightweight packable pair of rain pants that look like they will hold up really well. I believe The North Face made the new ones much tougher than the original design. The zippers down the sides are great for putting these on over your boots. These pants do have an "alpine fit" so don't expect to get them on over anything baggy. They would likely work best in inclimate weather over a good form fitting base layer. They bunched up my cargo pants a little in the crotch area when I tried to put them on as a shell. All in all they are a good pair of pants, just keep in mind you may be a little limited on what to wear underneath. If you are looking for a pair of weather resistant pants I'd look more towards the Mountain Hardwear Piero Pants, they are also very water resistant but they also stretch and have more pockets. They may negate the need for a rain shell.