Free Shipping on Orders Over $50*

Gear Question

how does this compare to the older version?...

how does this compare to the older version? Specifically how does the primaloft eco compare to the thermic micro? How does the new 20D nylon ripstop compare to the old convert 15D ripstop? What does the D stand for?

Responded on

Easy Rider. Primaloft Eco is a synthetic insulation from Primaloft that has a certain percent recycled content. Thermic Micro is Mountain Hardwear's proprietary insulation that we use across our line in many different products from jackets to pants to sleeping bags and compares favorably to Primaloft PL One. It has a high silicone content making it extremely soft and packable/stuffable. We have been using it for years with great results.

As for the 'D' in 20D... the D stands for Denier. And if you really wanna know, Denier is a unit of measure for the linear mass density of fibers. It is defined as the mass in grams per 9,000 meters. At least this is what Wikipedia says! The easiest way to understand it is if you stretched one single strand of nylon 9,000 meters, then melted it down in to a spoon, and then weighed it... it would weigh one ounce. This equals one denier. As far as outerwear is concerned the smaller the number used to describe face fabrics of jackets the lighter the fabric. With that said, it is really hard to tell the difference between 15D and 20D fabrics. So, back to your original 2nd question... it is really similar to the old fabric and it would be hard to tell the difference. Hope this info helps and doesn't confuse. Cheers!

Responded on

Not to presuade you from this jacket, my thoughts after using a 2007 Model compressor for many years are that the new version has a very clamy feel unlike the smooth as silk older versions. I found a closeout of last years model with Prima loft instead.

Responded on

Jon, I'm curious. Primaloft unashamedly admits that PL1 has a CLO/oz. value of .92, which is roughly equivalent to 625 fill power down. I talked to an Arc'teryx rep, and he said that after in house testing, their coreloft insulation showed a CLO/oz. value of .82. Despite my trying, I have never been able to get a straight answer out of Mountain Hardwear about the CLO value of Thermic Micro insulation. Any chance you could help me out? Despite your claim that it compares favorably to Primaloft One, Primaloft does a lot of testing to ensure that they can claim to be the warmest synthetic insulation on the market, wet or dry. Can you show some numbers please?

Responded on

After talking with a Mountain Hardware rep I was able to find out that they tested their Thermic Micro to have a clo of .76. I believe PL Eco is .74 so they should initially have the same warmth.

Loft retention would play a much more important role when comparing the two since we all know that after being packed down again and again all synthetics loose their loft and insulating values.